A Call for an Immigration Summit - Immigration Issues Worldwide

Time for reflection

Exploring similarities between cultures, in dealing with targeted immigrant groups.

Magyar Hirlap, a Hungarian daily news entity (see ://www.magyarhirlap.hu/) supports the stern immigration measures against particular immigrants, Romanian gypsies, that the Italian government takes in Italy, see ://www.eurotopics.net/en/search/results/archiv_article/ARTICLE28414-Justified-severity. See FN 3 for the text.

We know from other articles at the Eurotopics site that Italian people (enough to be mentioned), hearing the government's support, follow up with their own reprisals against gypsies. Follow the leader, as anywhere.

Since we cannot translate to English ourselves from Magyar Hirlap, we rely on Eurotopics' translation, and do an experiment to see if American diatribes against our targets (do a search for Lou Dobbs, Rush Limbaugh and immigration issues) sounds any different from European diatribes against their targets, and where we go from here.

Map-out. We are going to use the words of the Eurotopics representation of Hungary's position as to Gypsies, and substitute American ones, as to undocumented Hispanic immigrants in America (the pejorative is "illegal aliens" or "criminal illegal aliens"). FN 4

Here comes the substituted version, a fake broadcast from America - fake news, but accurate in substance. Here goes:

....................................... Music, then fade out.

News commentator: 'The conservative Fox News, see Bill O'Reilly at ://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,156319,00.html, expresses sympathy with Italy's tough immigration policy:

Mr. O'Reilly: "What are we talking about here? We are talking about the fact that America has been inundated with Mexican vagrants. They have neither papers nor money. What is worse is their failure to follow even the most rudimentary standards of conduct. They live in urban and rural clusters. They are shabby and create piles of refuse and dirt. They take jobs from Americans and get free social services at our expense, and so they also bring in more of their kind. And of course, they also commit crimes - crimes of a rapidly escalating gravity.

News commentator: 'Media far-right conservative opinionator Lou Dobbs reached the end of his tether and added to the stereotype that undocumented immigrants increase crime, by juxtaposing the term "undocumented immigrants" or "illegal aliens" with "criminal". [see http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/03/05/immigration_and_crime/.

News commentator continues: 'Berlusconi [Italy] and his conservative government have now decided to put an end to this ridiculous and disgraceful state of affairs. In addition to punishment for illegal immigrants, in future undocumented hispanic immigrants are also to be deported.

'Any normal person would support these measures.

'The problem is that our liberal world is full of crazy people. So now we are witnessing how liberal defenders of rights and commentators unleash an indignant storm of protest against the Italian government. And of course, Berlusconi is the bad guy and the 'populist'."

..........................................Music, then fade out again.

Issues: When does a program regarding reasonable immigration issues become a virtual pogrom FN 1. Not killing, but killing the spirit, the humanity of a group, reaction by mass deportion to where.

Are we looking at a global crisis in human population movements, an issue confronting nations anywhere.

1. Role of Memes. Has a "meme" spread, FN 2, that time's up for immigration from underdeveloped countries and for groups long targeted, to the developed countries. These targeted groups used to be - here - the Irish, others who came in huge numbers in the 19th Century. Now assimilated, as physically similar to mainstream, did ok economically. The Irish. Doing not so well: Gypsies, Roma. Doing well here: Jews. Doing middling: Hispanics.

As to all, another meme at one time: that "bad" immigrant behavior when it occurs, if it occurs, reflects the immigrant's inferiority, the immigrant's culture's unworthiness, not his background experiences, lessons learned, etc.

2. Theory: Is there any chance that universal basic sustenance - food, clothing, shelter, jobs, dignity-fostering policies, could change the meme.

We may find it hard to even give it a chance.

We predict that the Hungarians and Italians, with a longer history of animosity to gypsies, will continue to find it more difficult to change the national "meme" about gypsies. Some of us here are trying to educate ourselves on the depth of the cultural divide. See Gypsies, Roma, Romani.

We have hopes, however, that the US, with its far shorter history of animosity to undocumented hispanics, will find it somewhat less difficult to accept forms of guest worker programs instead of Immediate Invasion of Neighborhoods and Deportation. But that can happen only if memes are kept in check.

Here, issues as to Gypsies and Hispanic immigrants are less entrenched, not a matter of generations, of tradition, of cultural acceptance for centuries, as had been attitudes and memes about blacks. It may be do-able as to gypsies and immigrants, if reasoned voices prevail, and not the inflammatories. See this reasonably hopeful article from the Center for Immigration Studies, at ://www.cis.org/articles/2001/crime/toc.html

That does not address the need for assistance to those groups in education, job skills, sustenance. No other country seems to have answers, either.

Everyday People

Global Summit. Hungary: Idea. We are all in same global blue-marble boat. All countries have ordinary people who reasonably will follow a sensible policy - and can be led either way.

Study carefully which way to go.

If everybody deports, as you suggest and our people also (some loud ones) are pushing for, where do the people go that will not continue to cause instability on both sides and worse. Take charge in a constructive way. Everybody loves Budapest. Host a global summit on immigration issues, because I can't think of any country that is not dealing with violence in those areas, or that soon will, when immigration across their borders also increase, regardless of the nationality or culture. All beginning immigrants who are unassimilated and distinguishable, are hit upon, sometimes to the death. Is that right? And, is that right?

Please wait until after our national elections. Thank you.

.......................................
FN 1 Pogrom. "An organized massacre of helpless people," see http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pogrom. Read about one at ://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Kielce.html

FN 2 Memes. See Joy of Equivocating, Memes.

FN 3 Here is the original excerpt, needed here as fair use for purposes of comparing the version above, and from ://www.eurotopics.net/en/search/results/archiv_article/ARTICLE28414-Justified-severity

QUOTE ARTICLE - The conservative daily Magyar Hírlap expresses sympathy with Italy's tough immigration policy: "What are we talking about here? We are talking about the fact that Italy has been inundated with Romanian gypsies. They have neither papers nor money. What is worse is their failure to follow even the most rudimentary standards of conduct. They live in camp settlements on city outskirts. They relieve themselves on the street and create piles of refuse and dirt. They beg and pester Italians. And of course, they also commit crimes - crimes of a rapidly escalating gravity. The Italians reached the end of their tether when a Romanian gypsy killed the wife of an Italian officer. ... Berlusconi and his conservative government have now decided to put an end to this ridiculous and disgraceful state of affairs. In addition to punishment for illegal immigrants, in future Romanian gypsies are also to be deported. Any normal person would support these measures. The problem is that our liberal world is full of crazy people. So now we are witnessing how liberal defenders of rights and commentators unleash an indignant storm of protest against the Italian government. And of course, Berlusconi is the bad guy and the 'populist'." UNQUOTE ARTICLE

FN 4
Why not focus on American gypsies? The group subject here is not gypsy for purposes of this discussion, see ://www.americangypsy.com/the_film/full_description.html,because they try to stay under the radar, and have not been in the news recently as a focus criminal element overall. But we are confident that when the cultures clash there as well, the language and response is the same.

Why not Native Americans? Their situation also is not a current news focus. And we have a guilt relationship here, and don't like to look at what we did. They are discriminated against as are immigrants (note some have found a mega-niche in gambling resorts on their reservations). They were here first and cruelly dealt with by us. We created reasons to slaughter them, by touting our "divine right" by superiority and mission, good heavens, to take land and property. We made our own justification. We let ourselves be sold, and now don't know what to do. Like Iraq? And in our making up our own justification, the Native American situation is like the Gypsies and Jews and Hispanic immigrants - not anything inherent in them, but we impose, they react over time, traits evolve both sides, and the meme runs on. We can't cover all groups in one post. Come back for that one.

Why not Asian undocumented immigrants? Not the current news focus, we see. This group enters with somewhat more of a potential support system of entrepreneurs and others, bringing-in, finding housing, initial job, not attracting attention except by numbers, but problems there are many and increasing, see ://www.altrue.net/altruesite/files/alc/pdf/reporter%20final%20PDF.pdf.

Gypsies, Roma in Hungary, as Elsewhere

New York Times, February 6, 2008. Dateline Budapest. An art show, by Roma (Romani, Gypsies) at the National Gallery. Roma are the country's largest minority, and the article cites them as the most despised. The exhibit came and went, contemporary art, but the gangs organized against Roma as threats to Hungarian culture, continue.

Nazi throwbacks.

What mindset, global, in US as well as elsewhere. What to counter.

Hungary in WWII; History of Expansions, Territory Gained, Lost

Travel to Eastern Europe highlights the fluidity of boundaries and conquests that is also seen in the architecture. The histories of rulers show much back and forth as nationalities emerged, identified and coalesced. See Romania Road Ways, and Romania Road Ways, Vlad Tepes sites. There find a history of rulers and interactions and influence by Hungary throughout the Balkans and Eastern Eurpe that are just barely echoed now in modern Hungary, focused as is now for the tourist at Budapest. In particular, meet Janos Hunyadi: The ruler who raised Vlad the Impaler, and later killed Vlad's father, and his castle in Romania at Hunedoara. See Romania Road Ways, Hunedoara.

Pride in history and heritage. Houses. See the blends. Hungarian houses are wooden and distinctive in Croatia, even near the capital of Croatia, Zagreb: this one at Sisenik. Many Croatian homes are stone, stucco. The wooden ones do stand out. I also recall that the Venetians and others used Croatia as a timber source for their ships and buildings at home. So much is deforested. Balance that concept with the fact that other countries that could use the abundance of wood to build homes, did so with fine decorations, borrowing from each other, and the fluidity idea grows. See Poland Road Ways, Traditional Zakopane.

Location, location, location. Hungary served as a buffer against the Ottoman Empire's expansion, at a time when the rest of Christendom was not paying attention, too involved with other intrigues - see http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/thou/thou04.htm. See also the overview of Muslim expansion in a quick summary at Europe Road Ways, Themes, Muslim Expansion. This massive defense effort further developed superior military skills - Hungarians were already legendary horsemen - but also a depletion of other resources.

Losses remembered, the drive to recoup. Read about Hungary as an Axis force in WWII at ://www.feldgrau.com/a-hungary.html. So much war is about regaining lost turf. If that is so, is stability ever possible so long as there is memory.

Eyelid windows - moving West

Rural Hungary is like any other rural area - some poorer, some more well-t0-do. This neighborhood was in a village on the way, cross-country, from Budapest back to Slovakia.

See the eyelid windows below: no sharp eaves to leak.


Look at the blue roof there. Watching. Eyelid windows are seen often in both traditional and modern houses - and in Romania (especially Sibiu, where roof eyes follow you everywhere) and many other countries.

They are coming here. See also in the Hartford Courant 1/31/07 at the Money and Business section, D-1, by Robin Stansbury and photo in newspaper by Stephen Dunn: upscale homes with architectural features including these eyelid windows, as a way of opening up attic and eaves to living space with light. Nothing new.

Hungarian history, Magyar and Khazar: Site for History of Central Europe

Sometimes we find a site that adds a handy chronology. Go to The History of Central Europe, at //mysite.du.edu/~etuttle/misc/europe.htm#Mong. Helps explain "Turan" and overview.

Doing a "find" for Khazar in the Magyar section:

Khazars and Mongols overcome the Huns.

1. Magyars were vassals of the Khazars
2. Khazar era - 602-1016.
3. Area - Crimea to Caspian Sea, north to Volga
4. 7th Century - Khazar chief converts to Judaism, population follows
5. By 889, Magyars settle south of Kiev
6. Khazars expel those who replaced the Vlachs in Romania

Then what?

Magyar and Khazar. Site for History of Central Europe; Tatar and Hussar.

Sometimes we find sites that address unclear issues, and just beg to be explored.

1. History. Hungary and the Austro-Hungarian Empire. See The History of Central Europe, at //mysite.du.edu/~etuttle/misc/europe.htm#Mong. For Hungarian history, see ://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/thou/.

2. Tatars. In particular, read of the Mongol invasion of 1241- Mongols were also known as the Tatars. We learn that the Magyars, the Hungarians, learned then that they had to fortify. Apparently the famous Hussars, Hungarian light cavalry, were Polish, but were hired at that time by the Hungarians. When did the Hungarians then develop their own Hussars?

3. Hussars. Here is a site that has Hungary claiming the Hussars, at ://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/thou/thou12.htm. "Hungarian light cavalry units, called Hussars (huszars)...."

We may have a negative idea of mercenaries, but in those times, they were the professionals. There was no issue of cheap opportunism, out for hire. The site says that many units deserted the Austrians, once they were far away from Hungary; and fought for the Prussians. But they wore a costume of red and gold trim, not the leopard skin and winged back apparatus of the Polish Hussars? See the Polish Hussars at Poland Road Ways, Hussar.

Who rightfully claims the Hussars? Poland, with that "winged cavalry" that saved Vienna from the Ottomans, or Hungary? History is complex. See fine images at //www.germaniainternational.com/hungary.html - but still no wings as on the Poles.

The "Thousand Years" site also mentions Hussar service in the French. There were even Hussars in America at the time of the American Revolution. And the Civil War!

And with Garibaldi in Italy.

Poland, make your case. Promote a military genius. See Poland Road Ways, Hussars.

Sequential Denationalizations - Heroes here, Oppressors There

Word associations.

"Hungar!" with a spit of disgust. A friend is showing how her Romanian mother, from Baia Mare, Romania, acts out her relatives' reaction during her childhood there, to anything Hungarian. They lived on one side of the street, the Romanians on another, and it was true segregation, I hear.

Magyars - heroes to Hungarian nationalists, demons to the Romanians who were subject to Hungarian denationalization of Transylvania during the last century. See http://budapest.mae.ro/index.php?lang=en&id=215. And after the World Wars, allied denationalization of and on and on.

History and culture. People's universal dependable defense of their own, and driving desire to spread their own over boundaries. And do away with what the others already had over there. Wander in a fine overview to get a flavor of the scope of Hungarian culture and history - see www.hunmagyar.org/.

Specific leaders: Janos Hunyadi, or Janos Hundeoara who governed part of Romania when Vlad III Tepes sought his help in fending off the Turks (Ottoman Empire), is "Iancu" in Hungarian. Is this Iancu Hunyadi? I am researching the headdress here because I cannot find "Janowe II", that seems to be the inscription. Headdress is more like Michael the Brave, but he was in Romania. No, here he is here: mek.oszk.hu/03400/03407/html/118.

The inscription does not fit still. Back to Janos Hunyadi? An old etching of him also does not look like this, but keep looking. So the process goes. I am at www.budpocketguide.com/TouristInfo/famous/Famous_Hungarians16, at the list and clicked on Janos Hunyadi (a/k/a Hunedoara in Romania - see also Romania Road Ways).

The history of nation-rearing is like child-rearing. The cycle of abuse perpetuating unless there is a strong intervention, or the individual has the unknown genome to rise above. The long back-and-forth between the Hungarian areas and the Romanian areas is laid out at budapest.mae.ro/index.php?lang=en&id=215. See also Romania Road Ways.

Pre World War I. In 1867, the Budapest-Vienna agreement put all of Transylvania under Hungarian control, at a time when the other two Romanian areas, Wallachia (Vlad III Tepes) and Moldavia were united as "Romania." Hungary Magyarized Transylvania a process of denationalizing the Romanians, and then Russia Russified Moldavia.

Is there any country or group that does not seek to de-countrify the people it conquers. Like de-Baathification. People do not just go away. Just wait and see where their deeply held individual and group beliefs lead if they are simply discounted and turned loose. The hatreds intensify. Read history before leading a country anywhere.

A child not doing well in school? If you possibly can, skip other expenditures, and go with that child to another country. See what interests him/her. Start there.

Trams and river drives - Commercial Budapest - and Magyar, Buda and Pest origins

Hartford is discussing bring back the trolleys, citing the European tram system. Watch it. Efficient but deadly to the careless. Parking may be perpendicular to the tramway, the rail right there. Go back to open the trunk of your car, and if you hear that racket coming, sprint. See tram history at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Trams

They can't veer, so you have to.



Budapest was originally two settlements, one on each side of a wide river difficult to cross - the Danube. Then it became two towns, then two cities, then one by formal merger in 1873.

1. Buda was on the hilly, cliff side of the Danube River. Good for defense, castle high views, dominating. Pest was on the flat land side, conducive to markets, docks, trade routes, easier construction sites spreading. See www.asap.co.uk/info/archives/666. Question there -was there a Buda who was Attila the Hun's brother?

2. Pest. The flat land, on the other side of the Danube. See www.filolog.com/pest. Here is a view of the Pest side - multilevel motorways, trams. The Old Town and Jewish Quarters are an easy walk away. Handy to refer to one side of the river or the other by the shorthand, Buda side or Pest side, But remember that separate towns are no more; and that Budapest is a huge, commercial city. The glamor points on each side get more attention than the metropolitan nature of the entire area.

3. Romans: We did not visit the ruins, but you can find them here: www.leafpile.com/TravelLog/Hungary/RomanBudapest/RomanBudapest. They were here 100-500 AD says the site, and the Magyars arrived, after Attile helped defeat the Roman Empire, in the late 10th Century.

4. Magyars. The Magyars have a complex past of migrations and origins. Read about the Magyars at this site, an overview for the history of central Europe -mysite.du.edu/~etuttle/misc/europe.htm. The Magyars have language links to the Finns-Estonians and others, and they are not Mongol or Turkish.

Others look to their origins as northwestern China. See archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/HUNGARY/1999-11/0943289383. Others compile. See groups.msn.com/AncientWisdomCulturesPeople/magyars.msnw. Back to the site on central Europe at mysite.du.edu/~etuttle/misc/europe.htm. Magyars. Variation, and movement.

Many converted to Judaism in the 7th century, and settled south of Kiev, according to the "mysite" site. Many raided, as mercenaries, for others. They then became Roman Catholic, says the site - again, please dig into this. So much to learn on your own.

We may think of Jewish peoples as Semitic, from the ancient near east, see www.fas.harvard.edu/~semitic/; but an entire population seems to have grown in central Europe, of different ancestry entirely.

Does that explain why so many photographs of victims of the Holocaust show Caucasians, and not near-eastern physical characteristics. We know of distinctions between Ashkenarzic and Sephardic, see www.jewfaq.org/ashkseph. Do those groups have different DNA??

Another group, "White Magyars" moved into the Carpathian areas. There are old Jewish cemeteries Sighetu Marmetei in Romania, see Romania Road Ways, the birthplace of Elie Weisel. In Moisei, Romania, there was a horrendous killing and destruction of this village with a majority Jewish population, see cja.huji.ac.il/NL14-Romania. See Romania Road Ways, and the memorial at Moisei.

Migrations. Have to follow every one.

The Chain Bridge

Here is the great link beween Buda, the hill-side of Budapest; and Pest, the flat plain side of Budapest. Walk across it from the hotels and old town area, the flat side, at sunset and all goes mauve.

Those are the parliament buildings on the far side at Pest; the picture is from Castle Hill - up the incline from the landing point of the bridge.

Count Szechenyi, instigator; English designer, William Clark; Scots engineer, Adam Clark (for whom the tunnel through the mountain on the Castle Hill side is named), no relation; mid-nineteenth century, triggering the unity of Buda and Pest and its enormous commercial growth, once the Danube was spanned. See www.aviewoncities.com/budapest/chainbridge.

The Castle District - On The Buda Side

The Castle District is honeycombed beneath the cliff with centuries of cave networks, some even used during WWII - there was a History Channel TV show on this that showed a German hospital set up in the underground warren. See www. history.com/ and look for Cities of the Underworld.

See also wikitravel.org/en/Budapest/Buda.

I understand that the caves are so close to the house basements that there are frequent holes opening up and down you go.


Buses are forbidden said the TV show, because of the weight.



The area other than the castle itself, see other post, is residential and elegant.

The Funicular (Incline), the Adam Clark Tunnel

From the Pest side, where we found the hotels and the old town, walk the Chain Bridge over to the Buda side and the ride up to the Castle District. The Chain Bridge and the 1857 tunnel here opened up Buda to commercial and settlement activity that earlier had been so hindered by the cliffs. See http://www.aviewoncities.com/budapest/chainbridge.htm


Walk across the Chain Bridge from the hotels-side (the Pest side), at sunset. The funicular is less crowded then - the inclined railway cars from the riverbank on the Buda side of Budapest, up the hill to the Castle Hill. See the Turul up there, previous post. Here is how a funicular works: travel.howstuffworks.com/question512.htm. Pittsburgh has some fine ones, web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/Pittsburgh/Inclines/. Also Gibraltar, see Spain Road Ways(here including the side visit to British Gibraltar).

The tunnel is the Adam Clark Tunnel, named after the British engineer associated with its construction in the 19th Century. Seewww.britannica.com/eb/article-9343099/Adam-Clark.

The tunnel heads to endless suburbs - the drive into the city from the motorway is not glamorous. If you want glamor, go the usual entry way by tourist boat. If you are lost in the car, find the Danube.

Parliament and the Danube View - The Pest side of Budapest

Government buildings along the Danube. That is the Parliament.




Pest was the town on the flatland side of the Danube, the one most accessible to boat traffic, markets, expansion without overcoming cliffs. Then again, the cliffs on the Buda side provided a defense.

Ideal for merchant as well as invaders - down the Rhine and the Danube - Amsterdam, Cologne, Rudesheim, Mainz, Wertheim, Wurzburg, Nuremberg, Passau, Linz, Melk, Vienna, Bratislava to Budapest. See www.rollintl.com/roll/rhine.

The Buda side of Budapest

Saint Gellert here dominates the cliff and a dedicated park area (lots of steps up from the riverbank). He tried converting the people here and was martyred in the 10th century. He was thrown off the cliff in a barrel, into the Danube below.

A difficulty in researching is the variety of spellings for the same person. This is also Gerard Sagredo, and is also Gerhard. And Gellert. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerard_Sagredo.

See this fine night photo by David Pride at www.davidpride.com/Europe/Hungary/HU_04_061.htm.

The tour boats; Danube-Rhine route to Amsterdam

Idea for easy itinerary regionally: start in Budapest, rent a car, and follow the Danube and then the Rhine all the way to Amsterdam.

Borrow and modify the cruise ships' itinerary and just wheel it instead.

Budapest Castle - the Buda side; nation-building and WWI

Budapest Castle. Its predecessor nearly destroyed in the 17th Century, the conflict to take Buda back from Turkish rule.

http://www.virtourist.com/europe/budapest/03.htm. Here is a photo gallery: www.fsz.bme.hu/hungary/budapest/kepek/nagyok/budvar2.

How nationstates evolve through wars and boundary allocations: a start on the uses of propaganda is at www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/bors/bors04. How this kind of castle is seen, and the power and eras it represented, depends on who is plugs in which charged words, and who has the ability to reach people. Probably very little as to "reality."

The Turul and Magyar Origins

The Turul Falcon, Budapest

The Turul. Mythical bird, central to the Magyar creation story. Once there were three huge Turul.

Find one on the motorway from Bratislava, Slovakia, to Budpest - the distance is not great, maybe some 100 km or 65-70 miles. Look to your left near Tatabanya, up a cliff in a hilly area. See its website about the Turul on its new coat of arms, at 193.138.127.88/tb211911.html. There in the distance is the silhouette of this huge falcon-like bird.

This is a copy atop the Castle District of the Buda side of Budapest.

More at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turul. The cliff Turul is the largest statue of a bird worldwide, so say. Find the creation myth of the Magyar people at www.stavacademy.co.uk/mimir/turulhawk.

For a colorful and highly educational (because it holds attention) website on the Hun-Magyar roots, the long association with peoples from northwestern China-Mongolia, see www.hunmagyar.org/. Click on the English "Enter" to get in the site in your own language. Click on the "Belep" to appreciate the richness of trying out new sounds and letters. Now: drive that way.

Especially: the Turan portion, related to that Turul. www.hunmagyar.org/turan/turan.

Find a thorough discussion of the Turul in other areas cultures through history, including that the Turul is the symbol of the House of Attila, as well as other cultural "big birds" (Phoenix) at Migratory Patterns of Tales, Big Birds, Phoenix, Turul>

The Old Town and walking the interior; Poet of the Szozat

Wars and nationalism. One group using the first to thwart another's second. Then the tables turn.

The large monument is at Vorosmanty Square, the Poet of the Szozat, or Mihaly Vorosmanty, poet of Budapest. He wrote of 9th century Hungary, Magyar heritage, and lived in the 19th century. He is known for his inspirational heroic epics, and narrative poems. See http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/timeless/chapter20.htm.

And the quiet of just wandering about a square. No schedules. Nobody telling you where you are supposed to look.

Old town square in Budapest has the splendid cafes and shops surrounding an open area, and our feet were sore, but I did not take a picture because the charge for a beer was going to be $10 so we politely got up and smiled ruefully, and strolled to a less pricey area.

Keep your wallet currency converter handy. See Europe Road Ways - How We Do It.

The Jewish Quarter: Jewish History, Eastern Europe

The Great Synagogue is on Dohany Street, so sometimes is known as the Dohany Synagogue. See www.bh.org.il/Communities/Synagogue/budapest.asp. The synagogue at Jerusalem is larger, then this, then the Great Synagogue at Plzen, CZ. See Czech Republic Road Ways. But this site says it is second only to Temple Emanual in New York City. See www.sacred-destinations.com/hungary/budapest-dohany-street-synagogue. More photos of the graves and Holocaust memorial on the way.

The Jewish Quarter is a mid-length walk from the riverfront, but hard to identify.
The old Quarter has few landmarks. Follow the map to get there, and there may or may not see anything identifable except the synagogue-museum, see below. We did see a few persons in Orthodox dress, but not many. What is haunting is what is not there.

So go to the virtual history tour of the area at www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Budapest. See the fine photographer David Pride's slides thumbnails of Budapest at www.davidpride.com/Europe/Hungary/Hungary_index.


Much of the old Jewish Quarter is now something else, like this playground amid the destruction of other buildings, and I do not know which if any are war-related, or just urban renewal. We just know that there are few Jewish buildings or centers.

This is the Spinoza house, with the 17th Century philosopher on the plaque at the entry, and in the Jewish Quarter, reached by following the streets on any map away from the Old Town.
It is a cultural center founded by groups from The Netherlands. Concerts, theatre. Cafe.

The posts on Magyar origins notes that the Magyars converted to Judaism, and then centuries later, to Catholicism. What were those circumstances? The Inquisition where it was convert or die or be expelled from your lands? Or voluntary, a drawing toward another belief?

Are Magyars connected at all with the Khazars - see current research and discussion about Russian Jews being descended from the Khazars, whose roots are not the Jewish peoples in Europe - Germany, Portugal, Spain, etc. See www.khazaria.com/khazar-diaspora. That site reviews the book, "Are Eastern European Jews Descended from the Khazars," by Kevin Alan Brook.